From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

All the Elvis you can take


Mister Moon
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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Mister Moon » Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:43 pm

John wrote:Credit where credit is due. How many of us have achieved something like this?

The Memphis Mansion Mono II Stereo release titled ‘From Elvis At Sun’ has today been placed in the Danish National Radio station archive at DR.

Henrik Knudsen, shown at right in this picture, visited with Danish radio and TV legend Jørgen de Mylius.

Jørgen and Henrik will be heard discussing the release on the ‘Hithouse’ radio show Monday 28th August.

https://www.dr.dk/lyd/p5/hithouse

Henrik.jpg


I'm sure they already own a copy of the original mono recordings produced by Sam Phillips in 1954 and 1955.


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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby John » Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:38 am

Mister Moon wrote:
John wrote:Credit where credit is due. How many of us have achieved something like this?

The Memphis Mansion Mono II Stereo release titled ‘From Elvis At Sun’ has today been placed in the Danish National Radio station archive at DR.

Henrik Knudsen, shown at right in this picture, visited with Danish radio and TV legend Jørgen de Mylius.

Jørgen and Henrik will be heard discussing the release on the ‘Hithouse’ radio show Monday 28th August.

https://www.dr.dk/lyd/p5/hithouse

Henrik.jpg


I'm sure they already own a copy of the original mono recordings produced by Sam Phillips in 1954 and 1955.

Nothing wrong with coming up to date then.


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Nolan Truth
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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Nolan Truth » Fri Aug 25, 2023 12:02 pm

John wrote:
Mister Moon wrote:
John wrote:Credit where credit is due. How many of us have achieved something like this?

The Memphis Mansion Mono II Stereo release titled ‘From Elvis At Sun’ has today been placed in the Danish National Radio station archive at DR.

Henrik Knudsen, shown at right in this picture, visited with Danish radio and TV legend Jørgen de Mylius.

Jørgen and Henrik will be heard discussing the release on the ‘Hithouse’ radio show Monday 28th August.

https://www.dr.dk/lyd/p5/hithouse

Henrik.jpg


I'm sure they already own a copy of the original mono recordings produced by Sam Phillips in 1954 and 1955.

Nothing wrong with coming up to date then.


I hope that CD-R survives the archive.
Nolan is here, with the truth!


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Nolan Truth
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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Nolan Truth » Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:00 am

Mister Moon wrote:Looking again at that back cover, it's also inaccurate to state that tracks 11 to 19 were "Sun masters". There were only ten Sun masters - i. e. the contents of the five Sun singles. The other nine tracks were Sun rejects. If somebody else (at RCA Victor, or whatever) decided to release them, and thus turn them into masters, is another matter, but they were never "Sun masters".



This is an excellent vinyl release of the SUN masters * from SONY. :D :o

IMG_9401.jpeg


The Sun Masters

Track listing
Disc 1

TRACK NAME
ARTIST
1.That's All Right
Elvis Presley
2.Blue Moon of Kentucky
Elvis Presley
3.Good Rockin' Tonight
Elvis Presley
4.I Don't Care If the Sun Don't Shine
Elvis Presley
5.Milkcow Blues Boogie
Elvis Presley
6.You're a Heartbreaker
Elvis Presley
7.Baby Let's Play House
Elvis Presley
8.I'm Left, You're Right, She's Gone
Elvis Presley
9.I Forgot to Remember to Forget
Elvis Presley
10.Mystery Train
Elvis Presley
11.I Love You Because *
Elvis Presley
12.Blue Moon *
Elvis Presley
13.I'll Never Let You Go (Little Darlin') *
Elvis Presley
14.Just Because *
Elvis Presley
15.Tryin' to Get to You *
Elvis Presley
16.Tomorrow Night *
Elvis Presley
17.Harbor Lights *
Elvis Presley
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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Mister Moon » Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:54 am

There are only 10 Sun masters by Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill, originally released as Sun 45s and 78s in 1954 and 1955.

The rest are Sun rejects that eventually became RCA Victor masters - without the input of the original producer.

I don't care who is wrong, but that's the damn, objective, truth.

Heck, is this boring or what... ;)


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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby John » Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:34 am

Mister Moon wrote:There are only 10 Sun masters by Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill, originally released as Sun 45s and 78s in 1954 and 1955.

The rest are Sun rejects that eventually became RCA Victor masters - without the input of the original producer.

I don't care who is wrong, but that's the damn, objective, truth.

Heck, is this boring or what... ;)

Actually not boring. It's good to be reminded what the masters were, even for an old stager like me, or maybe for newcomers.

It's all part of the educational process.



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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Mister Moon » Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:38 am

John wrote:
Mister Moon wrote:There are only 10 Sun masters by Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill, originally released as Sun 45s and 78s in 1954 and 1955.

The rest are Sun rejects that eventually became RCA Victor masters - without the input of the original producer.

I don't care who is wrong, but that's the damn, objective, truth.

Heck, is this boring or what... ;)

Actually not boring. It's good to be reminded what the masters were, even for an old stager like me, or maybe for newcomers.

It's all part of the educational process.


Correct. I hope this is the last time we explain this very simple concept, ha ha.


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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby John » Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:52 am

Mister Moon wrote:
John wrote:
Mister Moon wrote:There are only 10 Sun masters by Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill, originally released as Sun 45s and 78s in 1954 and 1955.

The rest are Sun rejects that eventually became RCA Victor masters - without the input of the original producer.

I don't care who is wrong, but that's the damn, objective, truth.

Heck, is this boring or what... ;)

Actually not boring. It's good to be reminded what the masters were, even for an old stager like me, or maybe for newcomers.

It's all part of the educational process.


Correct. I hope this is the last time we explain this very simple concept, ha ha.

New fans come along all the time. You could start a dedicated topic on it. I think that would be interesting.


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Colin B
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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Colin B » Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:21 am

Mister Moon wrote:There are only 10 Sun masters by Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill, originally released as Sun 45s and 78s in 1954 and 1955.

The rest are Sun rejects that eventually became RCA Victor masters - without the input of the original producer.

I don't care who is wrong, but that's the damn, objective, truth.

Heck, is this boring or what... ;)


Hate to be pedantic, but Sam Phillips could have had some recorded tracks he considered 'masters' which he didn't have time to release
before the RCA buyout.
Colin B

"Judge a man not by his answers but by his questions" - Voltaire
"Why ?" - Colin B


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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Yin Yang » Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:46 am

Colin B wrote:
Mister Moon wrote:There are only 10 Sun masters by Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill, originally released as Sun 45s and 78s in 1954 and 1955.

The rest are Sun rejects that eventually became RCA Victor masters - without the input of the original producer.

I don't care who is wrong, but that's the damn, objective, truth.

Heck, is this boring or what... ;)


Hate to be pedantic, but Sam Phillips could have had some recorded tracks he considered 'masters' which he didn't have time to release
before the RCA buyout.


Those would be called "unreleased masters" or "previously unreleased masters" upon release.
I see these terms quite often when I buy multiple CD boxes.

Or there is a * next to a title and at the bottom or top of the tracklist it states " * previously only released in Turkey" or whatever country it was released.
Or "* new stereo remix - track previously only released on mono single"


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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby John » Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:51 pm

Colin B wrote:
Mister Moon wrote:There are only 10 Sun masters by Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill, originally released as Sun 45s and 78s in 1954 and 1955.

The rest are Sun rejects that eventually became RCA Victor masters - without the input of the original producer.

I don't care who is wrong, but that's the damn, objective, truth.

Heck, is this boring or what... ;)


Hate to be pedantic, but Sam Phillips could have had some recorded tracks he considered 'masters' which he didn't have time to release
before the RCA buyout.

Did he work that far ahead?


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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Nolan Truth » Sat Aug 26, 2023 6:06 pm

John wrote:
Colin B wrote:
Mister Moon wrote:There are only 10 Sun masters by Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill, originally released as Sun 45s and 78s in 1954 and 1955.

The rest are Sun rejects that eventually became RCA Victor masters - without the input of the original producer.

I don't care who is wrong, but that's the damn, objective, truth.

Heck, is this boring or what... ;)


Hate to be pedantic, but Sam Phillips could have had some recorded tracks he considered 'masters' which he didn't have time to release
before the RCA buyout.

Did he work that far ahead?


Mr Phillips.m4a
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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Mister Moon » Sat Aug 26, 2023 6:25 pm

Nolan Truth wrote:Mr Phillips.m4a


That's simply false and inaccurate. It's hardly a secret.

Translation - "I sent Steve Sholes everything I could find among all the tapes I hadn't erased".

And he is evidently using the word "master" as a synonym of "tape".


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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Nolan Truth » Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:18 am

Let me clarify.

John wrote:Did he work that far ahead?



Sam Phillips wrote:Another thing I didn’t do was try to record a lot of stuff in advance, I did not believe in that
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Re: From Elvis At Sun....in stereo.

Postby Mister Moon » Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:07 pm

Nolan Truth wrote:
Stereo.jpg


Just to set the record straight - no pun intended.

Sam Phillips stayed at 706 Union Avenue all through the 50s, up to late 1959. During that time, his equipment was mono, and whenever he had to overdub stuff to a recording, which was not very often, it was at the expense of the sound quality of the final master - he ran a copy of the take he had chosen for release and overdubbed the, say, backing vocals to it. That happened mainly, and rarely, from 1957 onwards. "You Win Again" by Jerry Lee Lewis may be the most well-known example of this procedure.

Of course, many record labels, not just the majors, but also some independent ones, were working with binaural and stereo in the 50s, but it was still a novelty, a tool rather than a format, and it wouldn't become a generalised practice until the early 60s, especially within pop music.

But Sam Phillips was obviously not interested in stereo. He spent 10 years working with mono, and he helped create tons of musical masterpieces in that format.

By the time he moved to 639 Madison Avenue, he acquired new equipment, but still multi-track was used for overdubs and pre-mixing purposes. All the final Sun and Phillips International masters were mixed and released in mono.

Nowadays, we can listen to authentic stereo recordings done at 639 Madison by the likes of Jerry Lee and Charlie Rich, but this is because the original multitracks still exist, and they have been processed for stereo today, not by Phillips.

There is very telling studio dialogue from early 1960 where Phillips hurries Jerry Lee between takes because of "all this expensive tape running through the machines". At that particular point, he was using 4-track tapes - he recorded the main vocals in one track, the band in another, backing vocals, if any, in another, and left the fourth track empty. The final result, of course, was a worse sound quality than the mono he had used at 706 Union.

Anyway, just to round-off the picture, I have contacted my friend John Boija, from Sweden, who is one of the leading Sun experts worldwide. His website is really exemplary, with tons of accurate information on Sam Phillips' labels, and with images of labels and sleeves of every record ever released by him. Here's what John had to say about this matter :

Yes, the 639 Madison studio was equipped from the beginning with 2-track and later on multi-track equipment. However, Sam Phillips was very conservative and believed that the primary way to market his music, was through radio broadcasts. These were almost into modern day mainly broadcast over the AM band in mono and with rather limited dynamics. No true stereo recordings were released on his own labels during that period. However, the studio did jobs for countless of external clients and some of those recordings were released already back then. One example is the John Hester LP which I display on my Phillips International section of my web site.

Other than that, as you suggest, the extra tracks were used for overdubs, repairs etc.


So, to say that Sam Phillips "would certainly have used stereo had it been available to him back in the 1950s" is not just misguided but inaccurate. It's just a quick statement made to suit the marketing purposes of the booklet accompanying this CD. Pure and simple.


**********


Finally, here's a link to John Boija's website, and one to the specific page he references above :

http://www.boija.com/skivor/sun_index.htm

http://www.boija.com/skivor/phil_int/pi_lp.htm
- bottom of page

Many thanks, John, for sharing your knowledge with us once again. We are indebted to you.
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