New FTD: Guitar Man – The 67/68 Sessions

[Richard]

We are now getting more than we ever dreamed possible when alternate takes started to appear via the Legendary Performer series or the early bootlegs, but let's not forget that Elvis didn't attend these sessions in the knowledge that every note of music and every line of dialogue would be released one day.

Personally, I'm happy to repect that...

But you didn't respect it when you were buying bootlegs. If anything, you were being even less respectful by buying bootlegs.

If the person concerned is dead and hasn't given their explicit permission, then there's no difference between releasing an outtake where somebody makes an error, and releasing one where they swear.

With regards to the bootlegs; yes, I knew that they were boots, but I was still at the fanatical stage where I wanted to own anything and everything. At that time, I also thought that RCA would never release this stuff, so I would be lying if I didn't own up to snapping things up whilst the opportunity was there.

We know that Elvis rarely challenged RCA over what was released, but the situation then was entirely different, and whilst history tells us that a number of recordings that he wasn't happy with made it on to albums, the floodgates hadn't opened in terms of session out takes before he passed away.

After that point RCA had a decision to make, and the demand from the fans for new material made the release of out takes inevitable. In fact, the continued demand has brought us to where we are today - with fans being prepared to buy these sets even though (in some cases) they are only getting a few minutes worth of unreleased material.

Whether opening the vaults up was the right decision is subjective. We know Scotty wasn't happy with it for example, but I think the decision over what to censor often comes down to the context. Something that gets overlooked due to the fans desire to own everything.

However, unlike the bootleggers, RCA and later Sony, are the keeper of the keys so to speak in terms of presenting and preserving Elvis' legacy, and that's why I support their decision here.

I don't know what point you're making, sorry. What I'm reading is "It was ok for these things to be made available when I was a new fan and I wanted them, but now that I've already got them and I'm no longer interested I think they shouldn't be released".

Honestly, that's what it sounds like.

[John]

It's not the language, it's the context. Thankfully, FTD understand that, whilst sadly many fans don't. And you've all got the bootlegs, so if you really must listen to rubbish like The Prisoner's Song, crack on...

If you read carefully through the thread, it's not just the prisoner song that got axed from the session tape.

I'm well aware of that, but my point still stands. The idea that everything that was recorded should be released is ridiculous. The sole purpose of these sessions was to create master takes. Listening to the works in progress can be fascinating, but nothing has been edited out here that's essential to the listening experience, and those that are bemoaning the edits already own the bootlegs...

You had a valid point 30 years ago, but we are now in some cases 60 years after the fact.

Just release the unedited session for the fanatics. There is no point for editing in this era of collecting.

I understand that the nature of collecting is such that the fanatics want everything. I used to snap up all the bootlegs as soon as they came out, and initially I was fascinated by the fly on the wall experience of hearing unedited tapes.

These days, I'm only really interested in buying things that I'm going to play more than once, and FTD's decision to edit here is by no means a deal breaker for me, although I appreciate that it might be for others.

It's also worth noting that the unedited tapes we are comparing to were indeed bootlegs, and it's not feasible, or in some cases ethical for FTD to issue verbatim copies of the session reels.

We are now getting more than we ever dreamed possible when alternate takes started to appear via the Legendary Performer series or the early bootlegs, but let's not forget that Elvis didn't attend these sessions in the knowledge that every note of music and every line of dialogue would be released one day.

Personally, I'm happy to repect that...

I would be too, if that's what they had done from the beginning, but they haven't. It's hypocrisy. We get some material where he's using profanity, where he fucks and shits all over the place, so to speak, then they decide we're all going to get upset over his behaviour during the Goin' Home recordings.

Bollocks!

Again, I think it's the context. I haven't heard the Goin' Home outtakes in a long time, but if I remember correctly Elvis mentions the pills kicking in (or wearing off?) which is clearly something that Sony wouldn't be looking to distribute.

The trouble is, if they're going to take my hard earned dosh, I want to hear Elvis in the best possible quality talking about pills, and singing about shitting eagles. I don't want to revert to my mono bootlegs, which I'd like to get rid of.

Hey, maybe someone can turn the old boots into high quality stereo tracks and release whatever's missing on the FTD set.

[rockinrebel]

We are now getting more than we ever dreamed possible when alternate takes started to appear via the Legendary Performer series or the early bootlegs, but let's not forget that Elvis didn't attend these sessions in the knowledge that every note of music and every line of dialogue would be released one day.

Personally, I'm happy to repect that...

But you didn't respect it when you were buying bootlegs. If anything, you were being even less respectful by buying bootlegs.

If the person concerned is dead and hasn't given their explicit permission, then there's no difference between releasing an outtake where somebody makes an error, and releasing one where they swear.

With regards to the bootlegs; yes, I knew that they were boots, but I was still at the fanatical stage where I wanted to own anything and everything. At that time, I also thought that RCA would never release this stuff, so I would be lying if I didn't own up to snapping things up whilst the opportunity was there.

We know that Elvis rarely challenged RCA over what was released, but the situation then was entirely different, and whilst history tells us that a number of recordings that he wasn't happy with made it on to albums, the floodgates hadn't opened in terms of session out takes before he passed away.

After that point RCA had a decision to make, and the demand from the fans for new material made the release of out takes inevitable. In fact, the continued demand has brought us to where we are today - with fans being prepared to buy these sets even though (in some cases) they are only getting a few minutes worth of unreleased material.

Whether opening the vaults up was the right decision is subjective. We know Scotty wasn't happy with it for example, but I think the decision over what to censor often comes down to the context. Something that gets overlooked due to the fans desire to own everything.

However, unlike the bootleggers, RCA and later Sony, are the keeper of the keys so to speak in terms of presenting and preserving Elvis' legacy, and that's why I support their decision here.

I don't know what point you're making, sorry. What I'm reading is "It was ok for these things to be made available when I was a new fan and I wanted them, but now that I've already got them and I'm no longer interested I think they shouldn't be released".

Honestly, that's what it sounds like.

One of the replies to my post mentioned 'fanatics' and I was honest enough to admit that I was once in that category, and I understand the clamour for every recorded utterance.

However, the bootleg analogy works two ways. After hearing the boot CD's many years ago, I'm saying that nothing has been omitted here that would really enhance the listening experience. Whilst in contrast the fans bemoaning the edits also own the bootlegs, but that isnt enough for them, and they won't be satisfied until they have exact copies of the session tapes in pristine quality - which clearly isn't something that FTD are willing to do - and often with very good reason...

[N880EAP]

The trouble is, if they're going to take my hard earned dosh, I want to hear Elvis in the best possible quality talking about pills, and singing about shitting eagles. I don't want to revert to my mono bootlegs, which I'd like to get rid of.

Hey, maybe someone can turn the old boots into high quality stereo tracks and release whatever's missing on the FTD set.

Same here, if I am going to pay premium price ..... then give me everything in the best quality (and at the proper speed and without mistakes).

My thoughts exactly. It's the next logical step with the way things are heading. And, here's more of my money for it too ..... (lol!).

[Johnny2523]

ClausH wrote:

Here is a snippet of Goin' Home - take 5. There are three or four edits here.

Thanks for sharing.

I don't have the bootlegs so I've never heard what Elvis is really saying there... although I can imagine.

It does sound strange with Elvis and Jerry Reed cracking up, but why? For what reason? Kind of lost it's context.


It does sound good though - as far as the sound is concerned.



RKS

Elvis sings shit 'n shouting.. and the desert sand in your asshole..

It sounds stupid because people who havent heard the uncensored version will not understand why elvis and the rest are laughing.

[Richard]

One of the replies to my post mentioned 'fanatics' and I was honest enough to admit that I was once in that category, and I understand the clamour for every recorded utterance.

However, the bootleg analogy works two ways. After hearing the boot CD's many years ago, I'm saying that nothing has been omitted here that would really enhance the listening experience. Whilst in contrast the fans bemoaning the edits also own the bootlegs, but that isnt enough for them, and they won't be satisfied until they have exact copies of the session tapes in pristine quality - which clearly isn't something that FTD are willing to do - and often with very good reason...

I came to the conclusion a few years ago, after 50 plus years of collecting, that all I really needed were the masters. I don't need to hear two takes of a song, let alone thirty, and I've got session boxes sitting in cupboards that were only opened so I could rip the audio (which I then never got round to playing). So I'm personally not bothered what is or isn't present on the new set. That doesn't mean though, that I'm ok with FTD editing it.

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that most of the fans who buy these boxes are what we'd call the newer generation, trying to amass a nice complete collection that didn't involve buying multiple out of print releases. That was always the hope with these session sets - you could line them up on a shelf and you'd have every spoken word and sung note available to hand. It doesn't matter that nobody needs to own a pristine copy of The Prisoner's Song, it's what collectors do. Just because I can't get my head around it any more, I can still remember what it felt like knowing that there were things missing from a collection.

I would at least like to know the rationale behind the edits. Who made the decision, and why? Did they think they were protecting Elvis's reputation, were they frightened there would be some sort of woke media backlash, or did they worry that listeners would be offended? Whatever the reason I bet we could all come up with a list of previous FTD releases where each and every one of those potential outcomes was completely overlooked and a CD went on sale anyway.

FTD is a complete clusterfuck. Everyone knows it.

[Nolan Truth]

Something to consider.
Maybe FTD are having to work to Sonys rule.
Maybe it is Sony who are insisting on these edits and cuts ?
Dare I say this, but food for thought ?

Maybe it is Sony, the argument remains the same.

In Ernst's recent interview...

"...There’s a question about any problems with the main label with regards to FTD and he answers that there are none, and with a laugh adds: “We send them a check once a year, and money talks”.

That doesn't sound like Sony are very hands-on when it comes to FTD.

Maybe not hands on, but I’m sure FTD can’t do whatever they want with impunity.
Sony will have to green light projects.

[John]

Something to consider.
Maybe FTD are having to work to Sonys rule.
Maybe it is Sony who are insisting on these edits and cuts ?
Dare I say this, but food for thought ?

Maybe it is Sony, the argument remains the same.

In Ernst's recent interview...

"...There’s a question about any problems with the main label with regards to FTD and he answers that there are none, and with a laugh adds: “We send them a check once a year, and money talks”.

That doesn't sound like Sony are very hands-on when it comes to FTD.

Maybe not hands on, but I’m sure FTD can’t do whatever they want with impunity.
Sony will have to green light projects.

As someone mentioned on another forum, we had Elvis singing about a bull fucking the lady matador, so they must have green lit that reference to bestiality. So now they're suddenly coy about shitting eagles?

[Nolan Truth]

Something to consider.
Maybe FTD are having to work to Sonys rule.
Maybe it is Sony who are insisting on these edits and cuts ?
Dare I say this, but food for thought ?

Maybe it is Sony, the argument remains the same.

In Ernst's recent interview...

"...There’s a question about any problems with the main label with regards to FTD and he answers that there are none, and with a laugh adds: “We send them a check once a year, and money talks”.

That doesn't sound like Sony are very hands-on when it comes to FTD.

Maybe not hands on, but I’m sure FTD can’t do whatever they want with impunity.
Sony will have to green light projects.

As someone mentioned on another forum, we had Elvis singing about a bull fucking the lady matador, so they must have green lit that reference to bestiality. So now they're suddenly coy about shitting eagles?

It would seem so, along with perceived racism when the words are about a raccoon.
Or perhaps it’s the cornholing reference which is a colloquialism for anal-intercourse.

[John]

Something to consider.
Maybe FTD are having to work to Sonys rule.
Maybe it is Sony who are insisting on these edits and cuts ?
Dare I say this, but food for thought ?

Maybe it is Sony, the argument remains the same.

In Ernst's recent interview...

"...There’s a question about any problems with the main label with regards to FTD and he answers that there are none, and with a laugh adds: “We send them a check once a year, and money talks”.

That doesn't sound like Sony are very hands-on when it comes to FTD.

Maybe not hands on, but I’m sure FTD can’t do whatever they want with impunity.
Sony will have to green light projects.

As someone mentioned on another forum, we had Elvis singing about a bull fucking the lady matador, so they must have green lit that reference to bestiality. So now they're suddenly coy about shitting eagles?

It would seem so, along with perceived racism when the words are about a raccoon.
Or perhaps it’s the cornholing reference which is a colloquialism for anal-intercourse.

I'm referring to Goin' Home, and not The Prisoner's Song. There's a whole other debate about whether The Prisoner's Song is racist, or is genuinely about an animal. Perceived racism? I guess one has to have that kind of mind.
Is Hey Little Girl perceived paedophilia? Is Kissin' Cousins perceived incest? Is Baby Let's Play house perceived to be about domestic abuse? Is Do The Clam perceived to be about a woman's privates?

And so it goes.

[Nolan Truth]

Something to consider.
Maybe FTD are having to work to Sonys rule.
Maybe it is Sony who are insisting on these edits and cuts ?
Dare I say this, but food for thought ?

Maybe it is Sony, the argument remains the same.

In Ernst's recent interview...

"...There’s a question about any problems with the main label with regards to FTD and he answers that there are none, and with a laugh adds: “We send them a check once a year, and money talks”.

That doesn't sound like Sony are very hands-on when it comes to FTD.

Maybe not hands on, but I’m sure FTD can’t do whatever they want with impunity.
Sony will have to green light projects.

As someone mentioned on another forum, we had Elvis singing about a bull fucking the lady matador, so they must have green lit that reference to bestiality. So now they're suddenly coy about shitting eagles?

It would seem so, along with perceived racism when the words are about a raccoon.
Or perhaps it’s the cornholing reference which is a colloquialism for anal-intercourse.

I'm referring to Goin' Home, and not The Prisoner's Song. There's a whole other debate about whether The Prisoner's Song is racist, or is genuinely about an animal. Perceived racism? I guess one has to have that kind of mind.
Is Hey Little Girl perceived paedophilia? Is Kissin' Cousins perceived incest? Is Baby Let's Play house perceived to be about domestic abuse? Is Do The Clam perceived to be about a woman's privates?

And so it goes.

Very fair points.
With regard to Hey Little Girl, it seems Gary Puckett was way ahead of the game in the 1960’s by telling a young girl that she was much too young, to get out of his mind, and to go home to her mama before he went too far.

[John]

Something to consider.
Maybe FTD are having to work to Sonys rule.
Maybe it is Sony who are insisting on these edits and cuts ?
Dare I say this, but food for thought ?

Maybe it is Sony, the argument remains the same.

In Ernst's recent interview...

"...There’s a question about any problems with the main label with regards to FTD and he answers that there are none, and with a laugh adds: “We send them a check once a year, and money talks”.

That doesn't sound like Sony are very hands-on when it comes to FTD.

Maybe not hands on, but I’m sure FTD can’t do whatever they want with impunity.
Sony will have to green light projects.

As someone mentioned on another forum, we had Elvis singing about a bull fucking the lady matador, so they must have green lit that reference to bestiality. So now they're suddenly coy about shitting eagles?

It would seem so, along with perceived racism when the words are about a raccoon.
Or perhaps it’s the cornholing reference which is a colloquialism for anal-intercourse.

I'm referring to Goin' Home, and not The Prisoner's Song. There's a whole other debate about whether The Prisoner's Song is racist, or is genuinely about an animal. Perceived racism? I guess one has to have that kind of mind.
Is Hey Little Girl perceived paedophilia? Is Kissin' Cousins perceived incest? Is Baby Let's Play house perceived to be about domestic abuse? Is Do The Clam perceived to be about a woman's privates?

And so it goes.

Very fair points.
With regard to Hey Little Girl, it seems Gary Puckett was way ahead of the game in the 1960’s by telling a young girl that she was much too young, to get out of his mind, and to go home to her mama before he went too far.

They were all at it, even Nat King Cole, and Steve Lawrence.

[rockinrebel]

I came to the conclusion a few years ago, after 50 plus years of collecting, that all I really needed were the masters. I don't need to hear two takes of a song, let alone thirty, and I've got session boxes sitting in cupboards that were only opened so I could rip the audio (which I then never got round to playing). So I'm personally not bothered what is or isn't present on the new set. That doesn't mean though, that I'm ok with FTD editing it.


I can relate. I was 10 years old when I started and I'm 57 now, so I've got quite a bit of stuff that's just gathering dust, and yet I still have a strange, sentimental attachment to it, even though I listen to the masters more often than not these days. I ordered the Guitar Man set as I'm particularly interested in this period, but even then, once I've listened and made notes, l cant see myself trawling through the sessions on a regular basis.

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that most of the fans who buy these boxes are what we'd call the newer generation, trying to amass a nice complete collection that didn't involve buying multiple out of print releases. That was always the hope with these session sets - you could line them up on a shelf and you'd have every spoken word and sung note available to hand. It doesn't matter that nobody needs to own a pristine copy of The Prisoner's Song, it's what collectors do. Just because I can't get my head around it any more, I can still remember what it felt like knowing that there were things missing from a collection.


I'm not sure there's a new generation of fans that committed to collecting. Whenever I look at the forums it's the same people that have been around for years discussing these sets, or speculating on what might come next.

That said, I do understand the buzz around hearing unreleased material for the first time. And it was great to be around during the golden age of the CD bootlegs back in the '90's.

I would at least like to know the rationale behind the edits. Who made the decision, and why? Did they think they were protecting Elvis's reputation, were they frightened there would be some sort of woke media backlash, or did they worry that listeners would be offended? Whatever the reason I bet we could all come up with a list of previous FTD releases where each and every one of those potential outcomes was completely overlooked and a CD went on sale anyway.


They are indeed inconsistent. With the sessions sets, my understanding is that if Elvis cusses because he's made a mistake, that generally gets allowed, but if the context of the comments are potentially offensive or damaging to Elvis' image, they choose to edit. That said, if we analysed everything, I wouldn't be surprised to be proved wrong on that.

It's also worth noting that they have released countless soundboard recordings that really don't reflect on Elvis in a positive way at all, but this policy continues and no one at FTD seems to care.

[ClausH]

A couple of small observations:
Take 13 of Goin' Home is missing but it hasn't been out on bootlegs either so it's possible that it wasn't recorded.
Take 10 of U.S. Male fades a bit faster than on the bootlegs. The fade is identical to when the take was released on the Close Up box.

[John]

A couple of small observations:
Take 13 of Goin' Home is missing but it hasn't been out on bootlegs either so it's possible that it wasn't recorded.
Take 10 of U.S. Male fades a bit faster than on the bootlegs. The fade is identical to when the take was released on the Close Up box.

There's a blank space against take 13 on Keith's site.

Not surprised about take 10 with Elvis talking about knocking someone's dick off.