Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

All the Elvis you can take


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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Norman » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:26 pm

Yes, it's not logical. But funnily enough, I recall a list as well with something like those songs mentioned.



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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Graeme » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:40 pm

shanebrown wrote:How can you say what songs were performed when the TV listings show that there was no Orbison show. It didn't exist. TV listings do not lie.


Yes, they can Shane.
Though I'm not suggesting they have in the Roy Orbison saga, or US TV listings in general.

TV schedules used to change often when the printing of the listings were done more in advance of what they are now.
When it came to UK TV we have the great Bob Monkhouse to thank on two counts. In the late 60's he started (obsessively) video taping many many shows. After ITV and moreso the BBC wiped or trashed only copies of shows it turned out Bob Monkhouse had many in his collection. His video tape collection was so vast he'd built an air conditioned building in his garden to house them all.

On top of the video collection Bob had also kept an archive of the Radio Times and the TV Times. In each copy he had also noted all the program changes where scheduled programs had been replaced with another for whatever reason. Without that info we would have accepted what was in the listing as having taken place, when it hadn't. These listings predate Bob's video taping and go back to the early 50's for the Radio Times. It also included radio program changes, not just TV. quite how he managed to listen to all the stations I have no idea. He also noted other acts that appeared in shows when their name was not featured in the listing.

(The only listing I ever knew that was changed was the program Nationwide which was replaced by a film. The film was That's The Way It Is and the date was August 17th 1977.)



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shanebrown

Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby shanebrown » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:38 pm

Graeme wrote:
shanebrown wrote:How can you say what songs were performed when the TV listings show that there was no Orbison show. It didn't exist. TV listings do not lie.


Yes, they can Shane.
Though I'm not suggesting they have in the Roy Orbison saga, or US TV listings in general.

TV schedules used to change often when the printing of the listings were done more in advance of what they are now.
When it came to UK TV we have the great Bob Monkhouse to thank on two counts. In the late 60's he started (obsessively) video taping many many shows. After ITV and moreso the BBC wiped or trashed only copies of shows it turned out Bob Monkhouse had many in his collection. His video tape collection was so vast he'd built an air conditioned building in his garden to house them all.

On top of the video collection Bob had also kept an archive of the Radio Times and the TV Times. In each copy he had also noted all the program changes where scheduled programs had been replaced with another for whatever reason. Without that info we would have accepted what was in the listing as having taken place, when it hadn't. These listings predate Bob's video taping and go back to the early 50's for the Radio Times. It also included radio program changes, not just TV. quite how he managed to listen to all the stations I have no idea. He also noted other acts that appeared in shows when their name was not featured in the listing.

(The only listing I ever knew that was changed was the program Nationwide which was replaced by a film. The film was That's The Way It Is and the date was August 17th 1977.)


What you are talking about, though, is one-off changes of episodes or changes to programmes, that could have happened for all kinds of reasons.

That is vastly different to a weekly TV series that was never ever listed.


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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Mister Moon » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:58 pm

The Teen Kings recorded "Tryin' To Get To You" at least twice.

The first version was done circa December 1955 at Norman Petty's studios in Clovis, New Mexico, and released soon after on the Je-Wel label coupled with "Ooby Dooby", cut at the same session.

Both songs were recut circa late March 1956 at 706 Union, and thus coinciding in time with the first release of the Presley cut on LPM-1254 (sorry, Colin). However, Orbison's first Sun single would include the recut of "Ooby Dooby" coupled with "Go! Go! Go!", also done at the same session.

The recut of "Tryin'..." would have to wait until 1962 to see the light of day, and then only in overdubbed form, as part of the "Roy Orbison At The Rock House" Sun album.

Here's some of what Orbison biographer Mick Perry had to write about the Clovis session :


There are conflicting stories as to who paid for the session, which was held at Norman Petty's studio in Clovis, New Mexico. Henry Morrow has said that his son James raised the cash for the session, while Weldon Rogers has claim to have paid and still has the receipt for $46.00 and the master tape; however most historians accept that it was probably Chester Oliver who actually financed the session. Whatever the details, the session (probably in December 1955) produced two sides, "Trying To Get To You" and "Ooby "Dooby", which were released several weeks later on Je-Wel 101 in both 45 and 78 R.P.M. formats. Somebody had obtained the acetate dub of Elvis Presley's version of "Trying To Get To You" (unissued at the time) and Roy supposedly sang his version of the song whilst listening to the Presley recording through headphones.


From the liner notes to "Are You Ready?", a CD of 1956 live recordings by The Teen Kings, released by Rollercoaster Records in 1955.

http://www.geocities.ws/mart118/misc/ready.html



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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby shanebrown » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:49 pm

Mister Moon wrote:The Teen Kings recorded "Tryin' To Get To You" at least twice.

The first version was done circa December 1955 at Norman Petty's studios in Clovis, New Mexico, and released soon after on the Je-Wel label coupled with "Ooby Dooby", cut at the same session.

Both songs were recut circa late March 1956 at 706 Union, and thus coinciding in time with the first release of the Presley cut on LPM-1254 (sorry, Colin). However, Orbison's first Sun single would include the recut of "Ooby Dooby" coupled with "Go! Go! Go!", also done at the same session.

The recut of "Tryin'..." would have to wait until 1962 to see the light of day, and then only in overdubbed form, as part of the "Roy Orbison At The Rock House" Sun album.

Here's some of what Orbison biographer Mick Perry had to write about the Clovis session :


There are conflicting stories as to who paid for the session, which was held at Norman Petty's studio in Clovis, New Mexico. Henry Morrow has said that his son James raised the cash for the session, while Weldon Rogers has claim to have paid and still has the receipt for $46.00 and the master tape; however most historians accept that it was probably Chester Oliver who actually financed the session. Whatever the details, the session (probably in December 1955) produced two sides, "Trying To Get To You" and "Ooby "Dooby", which were released several weeks later on Je-Wel 101 in both 45 and 78 R.P.M. formats. Somebody had obtained the acetate dub of Elvis Presley's version of "Trying To Get To You" (unissued at the time) and Roy supposedly sang his version of the song whilst listening to the Presley recording through headphones.


From the liner notes to "Are You Ready?", a CD of 1956 live recordings by The Teen Kings, released by Rollercoaster Records in 1955.

http://www.geocities.ws/mart118/misc/ready.html


I think the word "supposedly" is the key one. How could Roy sing along to Elvis's version when Elvis's version ran 15 seconds shorter than Orbisons? Elvis' first run-through of the song is over by 1.13, and the instrumental then begins. Orbison's is so much slower that there isn't even an instrumental, and he's only just finished the bridge by 1.13! There is no way that he could have been singing along to Elvis's version. It's no small wonder that people get misinformation!



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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Graeme » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:49 pm

shanebrown wrote:
Graeme wrote:
shanebrown wrote:How can you say what songs were performed when the TV listings show that there was no Orbison show. It didn't exist. TV listings do not lie.


Yes, they can Shane.
Though I'm not suggesting they have in the Roy Orbison saga, or US TV listings in general.

TV schedules used to change often when the printing of the listings were done more in advance of what they are now.
When it came to UK TV we have the great Bob Monkhouse to thank on two counts. In the late 60's he started (obsessively) video taping many many shows. After ITV and moreso the BBC wiped or trashed only copies of shows it turned out Bob Monkhouse had many in his collection. His video tape collection was so vast he'd built an air conditioned building in his garden to house them all.

On top of the video collection Bob had also kept an archive of the Radio Times and the TV Times. In each copy he had also noted all the program changes where scheduled programs had been replaced with another for whatever reason. Without that info we would have accepted what was in the listing as having taken place, when it hadn't. These listings predate Bob's video taping and go back to the early 50's for the Radio Times. It also included radio program changes, not just TV. quite how he managed to listen to all the stations I have no idea. He also noted other acts that appeared in shows when their name was not featured in the listing.

(The only listing I ever knew that was changed was the program Nationwide which was replaced by a film. The film was That's The Way It Is and the date was August 17th 1977.)


What you are talking about, though, is one-off changes of episodes or changes to programmes, that could have happened for all kinds of reasons.

That is vastly different to a weekly TV series that was never ever listed.


Absolutely and I did acknowledge that straight off the bat with:
Graeme wrote:Though I'm not suggesting they have in the Roy Orbison saga

I was merely addressing:
shanebrown wrote:TV listings do not lie.



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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby shanebrown » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:35 am

Sorry, Graeme, I misread what you had typed. I'm still hoping to do some more work on tracing this whole thing back, but that needs to be put on hold for a while as Mum was rushed to hospital this evening during a gig I was giving. Early signs look like she will be OK, but obviously will probably be on a leave of absence from forums for a few days.



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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Graeme » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:38 am

Hope Mum makes a full recovery.

It'd be great to find an answer one day, but for now get things sorted your end - after all we've waited decades to find an answer so there's no rush lol.


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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Mojo Filter » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:55 am

shanebrown wrote:
Mojo Filter wrote:
cadillac-elvis wrote:ok, I have been looking for another article on this, and I can't find it now. I think it's in a back issue of Elvis the man and his music, but so long ago.

What I remember reading was that actual song titles were named.

So, does this rumor or hoax, go as far as actually naming song titles?

If the song titles are correct, someone had to have watched this video.

I recall "thats all right", and a duet with Roy and Elvis doing, "he's got the whole wide world in his hands", and I believe another song as well.

Anyone else recall this?

I have read that "Tryin' To Get To You" was the song performed. Which is where Roy learnt of the song and several months later recorded it for Jewel Records coupled with an early version of "Ooby Dooby" before he recut it for Sun.

R-2197855-1451832235-6149.jpeg.jpg

Je-Wel_Records_JE-101-B_Ooby_Dooby.jpg

Although Elvis recorded "Tryin' To Get To You" in February 1955 for Sun the song wasn't released until March 1956 on his first RCA album. But he did perform the song live in 55.


How can you say what songs were performed when the TV listings show that there was no Orbison show. It didn't exist. TV listings do not lie.

Actually, I was responding to cadillac-elvis' post about songs being mentioned in write ups from the past on the Orbison Show that he had read and that I had seen, regardless of what TV listings you have found, so far....
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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Mojo Filter » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:15 am

What one has to remember, between the years 1954 & 1955, is that there is still a lot of things that there's no answers or information on.

When Jorgensen was working on his A Boy From Tupelo book there are several things that he couldn't find things on such as, session dates and tour dates, though he knows Elvis was doing something but couldn't find anything. So to there are still a lot of undocumented shows and session dates, and not knowing where Elvis was on a given date.

Those that do have his excellent book....

R-3798981-1344881989-5669.jpeg.jpg


Will notice that down the sides of each page of the book is the calendar dates, and the ones that are blank are because he simply didn't know or found any info on where Elvis was etc. He said this in an interview.
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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby John » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:36 am

shanebrown wrote:Sorry, Graeme, I misread what you had typed. I'm still hoping to do some more work on tracing this whole thing back, but that needs to be put on hold for a while as Mum was rushed to hospital this evening during a gig I was giving. Early signs look like she will be OK, but obviously will probably be on a leave of absence from forums for a few days.

I hope your mum will be OK Shane. Wishing her, and you, all the best.


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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Mister Moon » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:23 am

shanebrown wrote:Sorry, Graeme, I misread what you had typed. I'm still hoping to do some more work on tracing this whole thing back, but that needs to be put on hold for a while as Mum was rushed to hospital this evening during a gig I was giving. Early signs look like she will be OK, but obviously will probably be on a leave of absence from forums for a few days.


Best wishes to you and your mum.


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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Suspicious Minds » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:23 am

shanebrown wrote:Sorry, Graeme, I misread what you had typed. I'm still hoping to do some more work on tracing this whole thing back, but that needs to be put on hold for a while as Mum was rushed to hospital this evening during a gig I was giving. Early signs look like she will be OK, but obviously will probably be on a leave of absence from forums for a few days.


Hope your mum is fine. Wishing her a speedy recovery. Take care!
Don't take yourself too seriously ;-)


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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby Colin B » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:41 am

Hope mum is soon better.
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Re: Elvis on the Roy Orbison Show

Postby cadillac-elvis » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:34 am

shanebrown wrote:Some rumours can be traced back to a specific time - the Irving Berlin/White Christmas feud story seems to date back to approx 1990 and an interview with a friend of Berlin himself given for an autobiography (and, again, I give credit to the Doc for getting the story traced back that far - his research, not mine). And I confess I have found no mention of the story prior to that. It was then repeated in the If Every day Was Like Christmas liner notes a couple of years later, and then became "Elvis fact."

And that's how it work, basically. If a story appears in a prominent magazine or book, it becomes fact. It's no use me coming along twenty or thirty years later and saying "hang on a minute," because the story isn't going to disappear. I can print my findings in a book or on a forum or on EIN, for example, but those findings don't "stick" in the way that the original stories do. They are too engrained.

However, I might be able to give a starting point. In the 1990 edition of Elvis: His Life From A to Z, Elvis is mentioned on page 145 as appearing on the Orbison show with Johnny Cash on May 31st, 1955. They also give other possible dates as April 1 (appropriate), July 22, October 12, or October 14 (p.322). These dates seem based on Elvis's appearances in either Odessa or Midland during that year, which seems a fair enough way of whittling down the possibilities. The issue is that someone writing that book in the late 1980s could have literally spent months just tracking down those TV schedules. Now we can do it in half an hour with the right connections.

april 1, 1955.JPG
may 31 1955.JPG
july 22, 1955.JPG
october 12 1955.JPG
october 14, 1955.JPG

As can be seen there is no Orbison-related show on those dates. The Pioneer Playboys, which crops up, were a country group lead by Roy Terry, not Roy Orbison. I wonder if this might have added confusion over the years. The rumour was that the show was sponsored by Pioneer. The Playboys were headed by a man called Roy. Coincidence that Pioneer is mentioned as sponsor in these rumours. Maybe. Maybe not.

So my guess is that the rumours were in full flow before the A to Z book came out, and they simply did what research they could to try to nail down possible dates. And credit to them for doing that. But info we have now (the TV listings) proves that it didn't happen - and, again, I can't find any trace of an Orbison-related TV show at any point in 1955.

As for Graeme's question of when it all started, well we trace it back at least 27 years. My guess is the rumour started a long time before that. Perhaps an Elvis Monthly? I don't own many but their level of journalism and research (and facts!) was hardly the same as ETMAHM. But 1990 is at least a starting point. Now we have to work backwards. But did the rumour start from an Elvis mag/book or an Orbison one?

I'm still hoping to put this altogether in a coherent article at some point!


Ok, another scenerio for you........As one of the articles in this long thread states that Elvis appeared without Scotty and Bill along with Roy,
on the afternoon of the Oct. 12, on local television to promote the evening concert.

Let's say, the memories were conflated that Elvis appeared on Roy's show, but in reality it was some kind of
Good Morning Midland Television show....it would seem a likely thing to do in those days before stardom to
promote an upcoming concert. right?

your television schedule doesn't cover before 3pm. didn't Midland broadcast during the 9am to 3pm time slot?
that would seem to be the logical time to appear and promote an upcoming concert.

If Roy had a Tv show in 1956, it would be easy for someone to remember that as being from 1955.
I still think the oct. 1955 time period, with the Johnny cash reference, as the most likely period to focus on.
But, I like to think of myself open minded, but also logical, and local tv is a tricky thing....because it's not
often printed correctly in the newspapers. So, I still have an open mind about it.
Also, Scotty moore never remembered being on any Roy O. tv show, but he wouldn't if Elvis did indeed just
show up by himself.

I was thinking we needed the original Tv guide magazine from that date.
I am lucky enough to own that one, but the problem is it's the wrong state edition.

Then there is the fact that Dallas, Houston, and probably El paso each have their own editions with
local listings for those cities. The problem is....Midland texas is not that big a market, and
I doubt TV guide bothered to print a local edition for that region.
so, we may never know the real listings for that city in the morning.
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