shanebrown wrote:How can you say what songs were performed when the TV listings show that there was no Orbison show. It didn't exist. TV listings do not lie.
Graeme wrote:shanebrown wrote:How can you say what songs were performed when the TV listings show that there was no Orbison show. It didn't exist. TV listings do not lie.
Yes, they can Shane.
Though I'm not suggesting they have in the Roy Orbison saga, or US TV listings in general.
TV schedules used to change often when the printing of the listings were done more in advance of what they are now.
When it came to UK TV we have the great Bob Monkhouse to thank on two counts. In the late 60's he started (obsessively) video taping many many shows. After ITV and moreso the BBC wiped or trashed only copies of shows it turned out Bob Monkhouse had many in his collection. His video tape collection was so vast he'd built an air conditioned building in his garden to house them all.
On top of the video collection Bob had also kept an archive of the Radio Times and the TV Times. In each copy he had also noted all the program changes where scheduled programs had been replaced with another for whatever reason. Without that info we would have accepted what was in the listing as having taken place, when it hadn't. These listings predate Bob's video taping and go back to the early 50's for the Radio Times. It also included radio program changes, not just TV. quite how he managed to listen to all the stations I have no idea. He also noted other acts that appeared in shows when their name was not featured in the listing.
(The only listing I ever knew that was changed was the program Nationwide which was replaced by a film. The film was That's The Way It Is and the date was August 17th 1977.)
There are conflicting stories as to who paid for the session, which was held at Norman Petty's studio in Clovis, New Mexico. Henry Morrow has said that his son James raised the cash for the session, while Weldon Rogers has claim to have paid and still has the receipt for $46.00 and the master tape; however most historians accept that it was probably Chester Oliver who actually financed the session. Whatever the details, the session (probably in December 1955) produced two sides, "Trying To Get To You" and "Ooby "Dooby", which were released several weeks later on Je-Wel 101 in both 45 and 78 R.P.M. formats. Somebody had obtained the acetate dub of Elvis Presley's version of "Trying To Get To You" (unissued at the time) and Roy supposedly sang his version of the song whilst listening to the Presley recording through headphones.
From the liner notes to "Are You Ready?", a CD of 1956 live recordings by The Teen Kings, released by Rollercoaster Records in 1955.
http://www.geocities.ws/mart118/misc/ready.html
Mister Moon wrote:The Teen Kings recorded "Tryin' To Get To You" at least twice.
The first version was done circa December 1955 at Norman Petty's studios in Clovis, New Mexico, and released soon after on the Je-Wel label coupled with "Ooby Dooby", cut at the same session.
Both songs were recut circa late March 1956 at 706 Union, and thus coinciding in time with the first release of the Presley cut on LPM-1254 (sorry, Colin). However, Orbison's first Sun single would include the recut of "Ooby Dooby" coupled with "Go! Go! Go!", also done at the same session.
The recut of "Tryin'..." would have to wait until 1962 to see the light of day, and then only in overdubbed form, as part of the "Roy Orbison At The Rock House" Sun album.
Here's some of what Orbison biographer Mick Perry had to write about the Clovis session :There are conflicting stories as to who paid for the session, which was held at Norman Petty's studio in Clovis, New Mexico. Henry Morrow has said that his son James raised the cash for the session, while Weldon Rogers has claim to have paid and still has the receipt for $46.00 and the master tape; however most historians accept that it was probably Chester Oliver who actually financed the session. Whatever the details, the session (probably in December 1955) produced two sides, "Trying To Get To You" and "Ooby "Dooby", which were released several weeks later on Je-Wel 101 in both 45 and 78 R.P.M. formats. Somebody had obtained the acetate dub of Elvis Presley's version of "Trying To Get To You" (unissued at the time) and Roy supposedly sang his version of the song whilst listening to the Presley recording through headphones.
From the liner notes to "Are You Ready?", a CD of 1956 live recordings by The Teen Kings, released by Rollercoaster Records in 1955.
http://www.geocities.ws/mart118/misc/ready.html
shanebrown wrote:Graeme wrote:shanebrown wrote:How can you say what songs were performed when the TV listings show that there was no Orbison show. It didn't exist. TV listings do not lie.
Yes, they can Shane.
Though I'm not suggesting they have in the Roy Orbison saga, or US TV listings in general.
TV schedules used to change often when the printing of the listings were done more in advance of what they are now.
When it came to UK TV we have the great Bob Monkhouse to thank on two counts. In the late 60's he started (obsessively) video taping many many shows. After ITV and moreso the BBC wiped or trashed only copies of shows it turned out Bob Monkhouse had many in his collection. His video tape collection was so vast he'd built an air conditioned building in his garden to house them all.
On top of the video collection Bob had also kept an archive of the Radio Times and the TV Times. In each copy he had also noted all the program changes where scheduled programs had been replaced with another for whatever reason. Without that info we would have accepted what was in the listing as having taken place, when it hadn't. These listings predate Bob's video taping and go back to the early 50's for the Radio Times. It also included radio program changes, not just TV. quite how he managed to listen to all the stations I have no idea. He also noted other acts that appeared in shows when their name was not featured in the listing.
(The only listing I ever knew that was changed was the program Nationwide which was replaced by a film. The film was That's The Way It Is and the date was August 17th 1977.)
What you are talking about, though, is one-off changes of episodes or changes to programmes, that could have happened for all kinds of reasons.
That is vastly different to a weekly TV series that was never ever listed.
Graeme wrote:Though I'm not suggesting they have in the Roy Orbison saga
shanebrown wrote:TV listings do not lie.
shanebrown wrote:Mojo Filter wrote:cadillac-elvis wrote:ok, I have been looking for another article on this, and I can't find it now. I think it's in a back issue of Elvis the man and his music, but so long ago.
What I remember reading was that actual song titles were named.
So, does this rumor or hoax, go as far as actually naming song titles?
If the song titles are correct, someone had to have watched this video.
I recall "thats all right", and a duet with Roy and Elvis doing, "he's got the whole wide world in his hands", and I believe another song as well.
Anyone else recall this?
I have read that "Tryin' To Get To You" was the song performed. Which is where Roy learnt of the song and several months later recorded it for Jewel Records coupled with an early version of "Ooby Dooby" before he recut it for Sun.
R-2197855-1451832235-6149.jpeg.jpg
Je-Wel_Records_JE-101-B_Ooby_Dooby.jpg
Although Elvis recorded "Tryin' To Get To You" in February 1955 for Sun the song wasn't released until March 1956 on his first RCA album. But he did perform the song live in 55.
How can you say what songs were performed when the TV listings show that there was no Orbison show. It didn't exist. TV listings do not lie.
shanebrown wrote:Sorry, Graeme, I misread what you had typed. I'm still hoping to do some more work on tracing this whole thing back, but that needs to be put on hold for a while as Mum was rushed to hospital this evening during a gig I was giving. Early signs look like she will be OK, but obviously will probably be on a leave of absence from forums for a few days.
shanebrown wrote:Sorry, Graeme, I misread what you had typed. I'm still hoping to do some more work on tracing this whole thing back, but that needs to be put on hold for a while as Mum was rushed to hospital this evening during a gig I was giving. Early signs look like she will be OK, but obviously will probably be on a leave of absence from forums for a few days.
shanebrown wrote:Sorry, Graeme, I misread what you had typed. I'm still hoping to do some more work on tracing this whole thing back, but that needs to be put on hold for a while as Mum was rushed to hospital this evening during a gig I was giving. Early signs look like she will be OK, but obviously will probably be on a leave of absence from forums for a few days.
shanebrown wrote:Some rumours can be traced back to a specific time - the Irving Berlin/White Christmas feud story seems to date back to approx 1990 and an interview with a friend of Berlin himself given for an autobiography (and, again, I give credit to the Doc for getting the story traced back that far - his research, not mine). And I confess I have found no mention of the story prior to that. It was then repeated in the If Every day Was Like Christmas liner notes a couple of years later, and then became "Elvis fact."
And that's how it work, basically. If a story appears in a prominent magazine or book, it becomes fact. It's no use me coming along twenty or thirty years later and saying "hang on a minute," because the story isn't going to disappear. I can print my findings in a book or on a forum or on EIN, for example, but those findings don't "stick" in the way that the original stories do. They are too engrained.
However, I might be able to give a starting point. In the 1990 edition of Elvis: His Life From A to Z, Elvis is mentioned on page 145 as appearing on the Orbison show with Johnny Cash on May 31st, 1955. They also give other possible dates as April 1 (appropriate), July 22, October 12, or October 14 (p.322). These dates seem based on Elvis's appearances in either Odessa or Midland during that year, which seems a fair enough way of whittling down the possibilities. The issue is that someone writing that book in the late 1980s could have literally spent months just tracking down those TV schedules. Now we can do it in half an hour with the right connections.
april 1, 1955.JPG
may 31 1955.JPG
july 22, 1955.JPG
october 12 1955.JPG
october 14, 1955.JPG
As can be seen there is no Orbison-related show on those dates. The Pioneer Playboys, which crops up, were a country group lead by Roy Terry, not Roy Orbison. I wonder if this might have added confusion over the years. The rumour was that the show was sponsored by Pioneer. The Playboys were headed by a man called Roy. Coincidence that Pioneer is mentioned as sponsor in these rumours. Maybe. Maybe not.
So my guess is that the rumours were in full flow before the A to Z book came out, and they simply did what research they could to try to nail down possible dates. And credit to them for doing that. But info we have now (the TV listings) proves that it didn't happen - and, again, I can't find any trace of an Orbison-related TV show at any point in 1955.
As for Graeme's question of when it all started, well we trace it back at least 27 years. My guess is the rumour started a long time before that. Perhaps an Elvis Monthly? I don't own many but their level of journalism and research (and facts!) was hardly the same as ETMAHM. But 1990 is at least a starting point. Now we have to work backwards. But did the rumour start from an Elvis mag/book or an Orbison one?
I'm still hoping to put this altogether in a coherent article at some point!
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